Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school

TEOTWAWKI inc.

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Truebeliever said:
Something else to consider, if a normal cop went in there against the Incident Commanders orders and a child was shot in the process, the media would be screaming that he didn’t give the hostage negotiator a chance, he isn’t trained to breech a door, and he got a kid killed. They would have him on criminal charges so fast if just to cover up their malfeasance. The Border Patrol doesn’t answer to the locals and were a SWAT team better trained and more experienced than the incident commander
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Do we know with absolute certainty the first officers into the building didn't shoot anyone? I haven't seen anywhere, whether they did, or did not fire their weapons.

We will never know everything that happened that day. The facts that we do have indicate the response should have been very different.
 
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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
Did you even read what I wrote, or are you just going to wave a red flag because 'Seek and Destroy' sounds scary?

How many people died there? Yeah, more could have, but less could have as well.

What other methods could have been more effective? Every second counts, and the clock is ticking. Better deploy the fancy mobile incident command bus so we have a comfy place to start calling everyone on the schools keyholder list.
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Again, what breeching method would you use or even have available? On patrol as your edc . SWAT has the training and equipment. Patrol generally doesn’t
 
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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
Do we know with absolute certainty the first officers into the building didn't shoot anyone? I haven't seen anywhere, whether they did, or did not fire their weapons.

We will never know everything that happened that day. The facts that we do have indicate the response should have been very different.
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We don’t even know if those officers shot at and wounded him either.
It will come out.
Are you saying if they didn’t have a shot they should have taken it anyway ? We do know they were fired upon . We know the gunman fired thru the door. Are you saying they should have fired back blindly thru the door back at him?
 
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Truebeliever said:
Again, what breeching method would you use or even have available? On patrol as your edc . SWAT has the training and equipment. Patrol generally doesn’t
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Knowing its Texas, and many family of my own from NY as former LEOS, I would find it surprising if they weren't equipped with patrol rifles, and body armor is standard issue. The only difference is tactics and a willingness to run towards the the threat.
As AVE says frequently on YouTube, "Sometimes ya just gotta piss with the cock ya got".


And not cower in fear..
 
TEOTWAWKI inc.

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Truebeliever said:
Again, what breeching method would you use or even have available? On patrol as your edc . SWAT has the training and equipment. Patrol generally doesn’t
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In that incident, anything that might have worked. Can't say for sure though. I wasn't there, and don't know the details, but doubt it was some maximum security door and lockset. The lock is just a deterrent. What type of wall construction is it?
Truebeliever said:
We don’t even know if those officers shot at and wounded him either.
It will come out.
Are you saying if they didn’t have a shot they should have taken it anyway ? We do know they were fired upon . We know the gunman fired thru the door. Are you saying they should have fired back blindly thru the door back at him?
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Not shoot blindly. I have been wondering since the early reports, if maybe they did shoot and possibly hit one of the victims. No accusation or assumptions there, just curiosity.
 
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"
Gomez said law enforcement was more concerned with parents than going into the school.

Gomez was reluctant to speak to the media recently because she said that law enforcement threatened her. The Uvalde mother claimed that a police officer called her and told her that her probation – from a decade-old charge – could be violated if she continued to talk to the media. Gomez only gave the interview after a judge informed her that she wouldn't be punished for speaking to the media. "


www.theblaze.com

'I'm going in there!': Uvalde mother handcuffed by cops describes running into school during shooting, says police tried to silence her from telling her story

A Texas mother who defied Uvalde police officers and ran into the school during the mass shooting to save her children has come forward to tell her story despite alleged threats by law enforcement for her not to speak to the media. On the morning of May 24, Angeli Gomez went to Robb Elementary...
www.theblaze.com www.theblaze.com
 
spat

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dwa12479 said:
Not quite. When you sign that contract you're now government property. You can't just walk away, even if you have no confidence in your leadership. The only orders you're permitted to ignore are those that are unlawful.
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You absolutely can just walk away.

You can try going through the system and get a transfer.

But ultimately just walking away (going AWOL) is always an option.

It's not a great option, but it's better than getting killed for no reason, or committing an atrocity, and that's a distinct possibility with bad leadership.
 
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Jchrisls said:
Knowing its Texas, and many family of my own from NY as former LEOS, I would find it surprising if they weren't equipped with patrol rifles, and body armor is standard issue. The only difference is tactics and a willingness to run towards the the threat.
As AVE says frequently on YouTube, "Sometimes ya just gotta piss with the cock ya got".
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The standard issue, EDC body armor is usually 3A. It doesn’t stop rifle rounds. Rifle rated armor if issued would be in the trunk of the car
It’s doubtful that first officers had their rifle rated body armor on yet. Patrol rifles maybe.
The pictures of the officers who were grabbing kids out of their classrooms by the windows show some with rifle plates but many without.
Many don’t have rifles with them.
That isn’t the main issue with whether or not they went in or not. At first it was the locked door but then the shooting stopped .
The shooting stopped before 11:48 according to the off duty who borrowed his barber’s shotgun. It was declared a hostage situation then. The regular police didn’t go in because SWAT was there. SWAT was waiting because the hostage negotiator was trying to do his job. SWAT then said this is taking too long and went in.
 
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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
In that incident, anything that might have worked. Can't say for sure though. I wasn't there, and don't know the details, but doubt it was some maximum security door and lockset. The lock is just a deterrent. What type of wall construction is it?

Not shoot blindly. I have been wondering since the early reports, if maybe they did shoot and possibly hit one of the victims. No accusation or assumptions there, just curiosity.
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The initial police shooting back and hitting an innocent is possible
 
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spat said:
Shoot the bad guy through the window, then tell the kids to open the door ?
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If they could see him, absolutely. Remember that when they entered, the gunman surprised them and popped out of cabinet or closet and got off a round that grazed the head of the entry team.
 
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Truebeliever said:
If they could see him, absolutely. Remember that when they entered, the gunman surprised them and popped out of cabinet or closet and got off a round that grazed the head of the entry team.
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2 large windows on the outside. After first on scene were shot at, and retreated, I can't figure out for the life of me why they didn't go to the windows- behind brick wall cover- and bust them out drawing fire. Would have taken seconds.

There's absolutely NO EXCUSE for the way this went down.
 
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Question for everyone who states as a parent they would have rushed in armed to take care of the shooter. Do you think someone rushing the school in civilian clothes armed might have a problem with the police on the scene. Do you think having a raid jacket with parent or better yet militia in big yellow letters on it going to prevent you from getting shot?
 
Jem45472

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Rushing in armed will likely get you shot either by police, or the shooter.

But that's a parents number one job. Protecting your child. And if the police weren't going to do it, then yeah, I'd take the chance. Obviously your not going to make it armed past 20 officers in the hallway though. I'd have gone through a window.
 
spat

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Jem45472 said:
Rushing in armed will likely get you shot either by police, or the shooter.

But that's a parents number one job. Protecting your child. And if the police weren't going to do it, then yeah, I'd take the chance. Obviously your not going to make it armed past 20 officers in the hallway though. I'd have gone through a window.
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One mother managed to sneak in and get her kid after having been tackled and handcuffed once.

They obviously didn't have the tightest perimeter.

If they were competent there would be no need to go in.
 
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spat said:
And would have been understandable if they had finished the job.
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Without a doubt. It's bound to happen one of these days, it's almost unavoidable. (Unless you hang back and wait for negotiator like these jack asses.)
 
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Why was the off duty with a barbers shotgun allowed in? He didn’t do anything but why was he allowed to search for his kid when other parents were cuffed? Disgusting.
 
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