Thinking of first AR and confused

[71velle]

I will start by saying I dont know crap about ARs so dont assume I know anything..

I think I would enjoy plinking with an AR but dont know where to start with all the options. I do a bid of bench shooting with a bolt rifle that I reload for. The range I belong to max distance is 200 yards. I really dont know what to ask about but hear are a few of my thoughts.

The full feature look is important so it will have to be a pined mag. I dont need to shoot the same size groups as the bolt rifle but dont want targets that look like pattering a shotgun either. It would be nice to be able to shoot the 223 I reload of the bolt rifle even tho I would still would likely want to shoot factory ammo too. If there are other calibers of ARs to consider I would be open to the idea. The whole gas length and barrel length is where I dont have a clue. If a longer barrel would provide notably better accuracy I would want to go that but if not maybe the shorter barrel would would be cool.

As far as budget goes I dont have a hard number but want to get the right stuff the first time. I dont like cheep crap. Im ok with assembling a rifle, but if off the shelf is a better deal Im good with that too.

Any information and opinions would be great!!

 

[BDinPutnam]

Go .223 Wylde chambering if you are already reloading .223 and want to tweak accuracy and loads.

Build your lower, it is the easiest thing in the world and cheap. It is also somewhat addictive once you start doing them.

You can always swap out the fire control group later- to me that's the bit that will move/tighten groups in the lower. Most lower parts kits are basically the same but the CMMG stock kit has a slightly nicer trigger out the box (hat tip to @GUNSICK).

 

[Calculon]

Near Rochester? Go see @Bullet Guy and maybe he’ll have another great offer tomorrow.
Rochester gun ahow sales!

 

[Blimey]

I don't believe a longer barrel will increase accuracy one iota. It marginally (very marginally) increases accuracy.

I have a 24" barrel and it's fking stupid. Don't do it. Just go with a 16". I believe carbine length is pretty much the standard gas tube, you can just get whatever they sell at palmetto armory or wherever.

For your first AR I think you should go with a featureless with a Thordsen stock so that you can change out the mags. The pinned approach is a pain. Selection even online of 16" barrels without a threaded end is pretty lacking, but there are some out there and then you can build a featureless.

 

[GOYABEAN]

If you go the building route @Runner99 has some nice uppers
https://nygunforum.com/threads/ballistic-advantage-crowned-upper.24133/unread
F/S - Slick Side Crowned Upper

 

[Jem45472]

Mid length gas is great for a 16" barrel. A quick read for you.
Mid-Length vs. Carbine

 

[Podmonkey]

Don't worry much about finding a Wylde chamber, the NATO spec chamber is more common and likey to thus be cheaper. In any case the NATO chamber will shoot .223 spec ammo just fine, the supposed loss in a accuracy was never great and I belive that modern ammunition specs have rendered the need for the Wylde chamber somewhat moot.
I think the S&W M&P15s are the best values in the AR world, and I would advise forgoing superficial aesthetics and get a featureless build allowing you to retain the detachable magazines.
The 16" barrel with a midlength gas system is probably going to be your best option as it is the most common and also very handy and smooth shooting. Most budget ARs are going to have a 1:9 twist and that's fine, you can typically stabilize up to 62gr bullets, a 1:7 twist is generally found on models priced above budget models and will allow you to shoot the heavier 75/77gr bullets which are generally the most accurate 5.56 loads. The 1:8 twist is the most versatile allowing you to shoot the 77gr stuff while still having access to the lightweight 50gr varmint rounds should you want, the 1:8 is most often found in higher range barrels intended for competition or precision varminting models.
For plinking I prefer standard 55gr M193 clones and Hornady offers a nice relatively affordable semi match 55gr OTM load that I like.

 

[JamieZ]

Longer barrels arent more accurate. High end barrels are, such as Lilja. Your reloads for your bolt gun might not work in the AR, depends upon your dies. I use AR dies or small base dies,,,both full length size. I have 3 different calibers. 223, 204 and 6.8. The 223 and the 204 both have Lilja barrels. The 204 is super, super accurate , even out to long distances. Build the whole thing,,,AR building is a cake walk. Buy a kickass trigger and a kickass barrel and you will love the gun. 98% of the guns bought complete wont compare to a custom built gun if good parts are purchased.

 

[71velle]

Thanks guys!!!!

I did not word the OP well when I said Full feature look I really meant I want the pistol grip. I have handled and shot several of the compliant stocks and dont like the feel of them. If the pinned mag thing is too much of a pain I will stay away from the ARs. I have seen a loader through the ejection port that looks like it would do the trick.

 

[Podmonkey]

Thanks guys!!!!

I did not word the OP well when I said Full feature look I really meant I want the pistol grip. I have handled and shot several of the compliant stocks and dont like the feel of them. If the pinned mag thing is too much of a pain I will stay away from the ARs. I have seen a loader through the ejection port that looks like it would do the trick.

See if you can't find an SCR then.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And there is always the Troy Pump Action Rifle too. You'll retain the pistol grip, collapsible stock, ECT. It'll still have the ability to fire quickly enough.


If you must go semi auto, featureless is the way to go though. You can clear malfunctions quickly that'll otherwise render a fixed mag rifle out of commission for minutes and sometimes hours if tools aren't available since you cannot get the magazine out to clear the jam. The ability to reload quickly is what makes a semi auto shine. It's what it was designed for. You take that away and fix the magazine and now you have a non functional rifle that can't fit any role except being a range toy since you have to take it apart to load it or use a side mag loader that isn't 100 percent reliable.

I've had featureless for years now and am getting out of it. The constant reminder when I look at it does me more harm than good. The angled grip is functional but not ideal. The spur grip looks stupid and you can't hold onto it one handed. The Tier 5 bolt interrupter is the best but it isn't kosher as per some troops here in the nysp.

I'm going into a traditional rifle configuration. I shoot in PA at times. When I go, I convert it and shoot regular. Before I leave, I have to gimp it back to cross back into NY. That really burns me. At least with a traditional type rifle, I don't have to do that anymore and when I go to the range in PA, I'll still fit right in. Most guys there have more traditional type rifles then they do AR's.

That's just my opinions on the matter. To me it isn't worth it. Something like a Ruger PCC, Mini 14 or 30, or Saiga AK would suit me better with no gimping involved.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Thanks guys!!!!

I did not word the OP well when I said Full feature look I really meant I want the pistol grip. I have handled and shot several of the compliant stocks and dont like the feel of them. If the pinned mag thing is too much of a pain I will stay away from the ARs. I have seen a loader through the ejection port that looks like it would do the trick.

Bear Flag Defense BF-10 Loader
This is what I plan to use for my latest fixed mag build.

 

[Podmonkey]

Here you are, best compliant option:

SCR Rifles

Personally I would prefer just the lower to mate up with the upper of my choice but it seems that is no longer an option.

 

[JamieZ]

Thanks guys!!!!

I did not word the OP well when I said Full feature look I really meant I want the pistol grip. I have handled and shot several of the compliant stocks and dont like the feel of them. If the pinned mag thing is too much of a pain I will stay away from the ARs. I have seen a loader through the ejection port that looks like it would do the trick.

All three of my guns are pinned mag. All 3 I hunt with. It is absolutely not a pain in the ass to load or unload. Your Takedown pins should be these https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/YHM-EZ-Pull-Takedown-Pin-Set-p/yhm-7284.htm this is what I changed mine to. I also bought one of these for loading the 223 and 204, MA Loader for AR-15 | Mean Arms ,,,they dont make one for the 6.8.

Its more of a pain in the ass unloading then loading but not enough so to really call it a pain in the ass when you have the right Takedown pins.

I love my guns,,,,pistol grip, muzzle brake, adjustable stock,, all with 5rnd mags pinned in them.

Like I said previously (kind of said),,,,spend good money on the barrel and good money on the trigger. One of the best triggers out there is like between 80 and 100 bucks and that is the rock river arms varmint trigger. Its 2 stage. Even better but not a whole lot better is the Geissele SSA-E trigger which I have in the 223 and 204. RRA varmint trigger is in the 6.8.

Plus you cant beat Lilja barrels. They are purchased by Olympic athletes and Special forces (seal teams) and by the one and only best hunter in the area,,,ME.

(I can call myself that because it is the internet )

 

[JamieZ]

One more thing,,,I have never had a malfunction on any of my guns that I couldnt clear easy with my mags pinned. Maybe this would be a problem if you were in a combat scenario but not hunting or at the range.

My side mag loaders are a 100% reliable to me,,,,never had a problem.

Ive had AR's for 20+ years, I built them because I like the way they feel and can be configured and the fact they are semi-auto. I didnt buy them so that I could load super fast or do anything that might be needed in a combat scenario. I'm not combat or a school shooter or someone who is worried about having enough rounds if someone breaks in to my house. To me 5 or 10 is plenty. I am a hunter, I am a target shooter.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Accuracy is not a function of barrel length (if using irons then the added sight radius may help).

Barrel length affects velocity.

223 wydle barrels are, actually, more prevelent now. I stopped buying wydle barrels cause people are so fucking stupid i get tired of educating them. I wish they had called it 556 wydle. That would have been easier. One of my suppliers list 24 options for 556 and 53 for wydle!

Have fun

 

[Robin]

Does the Valkrie use the same magazines as the 6.8 SPC? Sounds interesting and a direction I might take.
Robin

 

[JamieZ]

Does the Valkrie use the same magazines as the 6.8 SPC? Sounds interesting and a direction I might take.
Robin

yes

 

[Elwood]

Springfield M1A in 6.5 creed, archangel stock mount a good scope, you'll forget all about AR's

 

[stuck in ny]

Get midlenth. The carbine length only exists for military parts commonality with the SBRs (GAU 5, MK 18, etc.)

 

[Marine Cpl]

Its more of a pain in the ass unloading then loading but not enough so to really call it a pain in the ass when you have the right Takedown pins.

And unless you remove the floorplate and pull out the mag guts, you have to cycle and extract each and every round putting a dimple in it's primer if you want to unload it.

 

[zzrguy]

I have a 18 rifle lenght gas system 223 wylde 1 in 7 twist barrel I built the gun from stripped lower and partial upper. All magpul furniture and a cmmg lpk with Joe Bob trigger fix in it.
All other ARs I've build have DPMS LPKs the triggers alway feel clean and little to no creep.
All guns are fixed mag and I've settled on DD ranch fixed mag kits. Dont waste time or money on 300blackout if you don't want 223/556 build a 6.5 grendel best round I've build a AR15 in that wasn't a whomper like a socom or bushmaster. The valkyrie looks promising built from the 30 Remington case and a 7mm is on it's way on the same base case..
I built a rifle length ar for looks and I'm very happy with the out come.
I use a bear flag reloader and it work great.

 

[Podmonkey]

Springfield M1A in 6.5 creed, archangel stock mount a good scope, you'll forget all about AR's

Strongly disagree

 

[Podmonkey]

@71velle says he has only 200 yards at his range.
Therfore the 5.56 is the best caliber to go with since it is very flat over 300 yards and is cheap and effective.

 

[Robin]

Strongly disagree

Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

Robin

Indeed, this has been covered elsewhere.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because longer and heavier is better right?

 

[zzrguy]

@71velle says he has only 200 yards at his range.
Therfore the 5.56 is the best caliber to go with since it is very flat over 300 yards and is cheap and effective.

I agree was just say if he didn't want 556/223 that's all I'll run 250 to 500 rounds of 223/5.56 on a range trip plus 22lr. Only 100 6.5 Grendel per outing. This is the first year I'll be hunting with the Grendel.

 

[Robin]

Get the M14 71. Once you get the AR the spending never stops
Me(?), I'm headed towards a Valkyrie upper this winter along with the dies and assorted stuff for reloading this winter. Thats okay though, I'm enjoying me foray into modernity!
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

.........Once you get the AR the spending never stops.............

This is true.