Bullet button legality in NYS
- Thread starter freddy
- Start date
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
I know one thing for sure ! Just because of the actions of a few scumbags and some power hungry politicians we in NYS have gotten shafted and have found ways around this Bullshit some have just given up ! Many have left to better places ! But this shit is a cancer that's spreading and from the way it looks it doesn't look good 
west coast infected 
east coast infected where and when will it stop 
west coast infected east coast infected where and when will it stop 
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm not saying they don't think it's not legal or that you can recite what they have told you.
What I'm saying is that the ATF cannot interpret NY law. They did however and a judge accepted it. The judge could have called Cuomo himself yet Cuomo cannot interpret law.
I'm not arguing whether they are used or allowed. I'm arguing that according to the actual words in the law, it is not. Not that I care that they misinterpret or allow it.
Ok I see where you are going. Let me clarify. My issuing judge interpreted the law. He interpreted a fixed mag no longer is an assault weapon. He then wanted a second opinion to make sure the fixed mag was indeed fixed. So instead of him examining it he had a credible firearms expert examine the fixed mag. Since the mag was fixed and not detachable at the time of the inspection then indeed it was fixed. The SAFE act doesnt clarify what a fixed mag means. It just states it can't be detachable. Mine is not detachable.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You miss the point. There is no definition for fixed magazine so any detachable magazine that can be removed, makes the rifle able to accept another one. That's fact.
I'm not saying that people don't sell them or people don't temporarily fix them and it's accepted.
Again. . I'm going by the law as written and the lack of definition.
It's basic English. I get that you have them so you want to defend them. But the bottom line is that unless not able to be removed it cannot accept another one. If able to be removed, it can accept another one in it's place. That's common physics.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No it doesn't. It states ability to accept a detachable magazine. Read it. Nowhere does it say not able to be detached.
Actually you are quite wrong again. If you attempt to remove my magazine you will alter or destroy the parts in attempting to remove them so for that reason my lower cannot accept a detachable magazine. For something not to be detachable then it has to be attachable. Without the mag button and the mag catch a magazine can't be attached. It would merely fall out. So there is no way a it can be attachable. Anyways think what you want . Your arguments are invalid but appear to make you happy so enjoy!
Here is where you just destroyed any and all of your argument. There is no ability to accept a detachable magazine , none unless you permanently ALTER the weapon. SO the weapon as it is right now can not accept a detachable magazine. Pretty funny how now you are interpreting the law Anyways enjoy It's bed time for bonzo over here
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
So, as the past pages of drivel have shown...
The ONLY thing that makes it "compliant" is YOUR ability to argue that your rifle does NOT "accept a detachable magazine".
If you CANNOT CLEARLY CONVINCE 12 people of that fact, then you are NOT compliant.
Get a configuration that you can argue for. Either "prove" that the magazine is NOT detachable, or that it is NOT accepted by your configuration. If you can argue for ONE of those, your configuration is "legal". If YOU cannot do so, you have your answer.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What? Everything you just said it's wrong. Read what you just wrote. Holy shit. I'm not saying you have a bullet button. But least assume that you do. I drill it out and install another mag release. It can accept.
Nevermind the mag release. I just stick it in and hold it. It still accepted it. You guys are comical.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Either you guys don't understand basic English and physics or you do but are arguing anyway because you have a fixed magazine. Holy shit. Never have I before seen so much blatant denial of basic physics. 
if it can be removed, it can accept. There is no denying that.
Now come back with some other nonsense so that I can destroy your argument.
if it can be removed, it can accept. There is no denying that.Now come back with some other nonsense so that I can destroy your argument.
freddy
.308 Win
I don't get it.
With that thinking, if the sear/disconnector is filed on a semi auto it can become a machine gun, so why isn't every semi auto illegal?
It sounds like your argument is that if it possibly can be converted to illegal than it already is illegal.
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And actually you are wrong again. This is very comical. You clearly don't know what you are doing or saying. If you remove the mag button and put a new button on you still can't attach a magazine. It won't insert. I also have the FC hook as well. So if you want to remove everything you still can't insert an attachable magazine unless you create an illegal weapon by installing other parts. Just like making a full auto. Or making a short barrel weapon Or adding a threaded barrel. Or adding a lighting link or auto sear. YOU are creating something illegal by altering or destroying something legal. So far there is not one of your arguments that are valid. They are rather comical and laughable at this point. I think someone has too much time on their hands. Lol.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Do you know how free men with balls Deal with an illegal law
They
Fucking dont
They
Fucking dont
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Apples and oranges. The law doesn't say ability to fire automatic.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
As I said in the previous post the law does not say ability to make full auto.
And I'm not getting what you mean that if you remove the mag button, and put a new one, you cannot insert a magazine. Of course you can.
Uzi
.308 Win
WHILE IT'S IN THE FIXED CONFIGURATION, IT'S NOT CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE. Tell me how you'll depress my magazine and put a new one in Will? You either have the rifle configured differently, or you illegally alter the gun in some way, which as already stated, is no different than modifying anything else that would be illegal to do so. Think about what actually matters when they state "ability to accept a detachable magazine". Simple judgment would dictate regardless of a ruling, that they're referring to the firearms current functionality and capability, not what it could be turned into after the fact in some other regard. All guns can easily be made into something illegal. No guns would be legal with your kind of interpretation under the safe act.
I know I've said this before, but Will you put far more thought into your attempts at legal scholarship than actual court proceedings do. I've been involved in quite a few and can say, without being an expert either of course, that generally, legal proceedings go by commonly accepted, simple understandings, reasonableness if you will.
When attorneys go off making long winded, minutiae-esque arguements like you do, they usually get shut down by the judge. I've witnessed this numerous times in 4 different types of court: multiple criminals parts, family, traffic, and civil.
It doesn't work the way you think it does. That's why I told you guys easily, quickly and unequivocally that AOW thing is illegal, 100%.
It's just how the system works, sorry.
When attorneys go off making long winded, minutiae-esque arguements like you do, they usually get shut down by the judge. I've witnessed this numerous times in 4 different types of court: multiple criminals parts, family, traffic, and civil.
It doesn't work the way you think it does. That's why I told you guys easily, quickly and unequivocally that AOW thing is illegal, 100%.
It's just how the system works, sorry.
spat
.950 JDJ
The rifle accepts a magazine, for sure, but not a detachable one.
Picture the court case, the prosecution expert witness on the stand and the defense asks him to demonstrate the ability to accept the magazine
He inserts it and says "see".
The the defense lawyer then asks him to demonstrate how it is a detachable magazine, and he asks to borrow a screw driver.....
This bullet button case will never see a jury because the prosecutor knows this very line of reasoning will come up.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
YES IT IS IF YOU CAN UNFIX IT!
Key words you keep forgetting over and over. Ability to accept. Ability to accept. Ability to accept.
It doesn't say ability to become an SBR or ability to become featured if you are featureless with no grips, bayo lugs, or muzzle brakes. In those cases, the rifle is how it's configured.
Now had it said ability to accept a grip or muzzle brake, now you are talking.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Can it release the magazine with the tools and accept another one?
spat
.950 JDJ
Very few rifles can't have their magazine released amd accept a new one if you allow the use of tools.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yea well murderers also get off scott free and you have judges like Judge Judy who have already decided the case before hearing it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
But those rifles don't accept detachable magazines. A lever action rifle doesn't have detachable magazines on the market. The AR only sells detachable magazines.
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freddy
.308 Win
This makes sense. I think the law was made to stop (law abiding!) people from extremely fast reloads as dramatized on tv, youtube, and actual mass shootings. So if it was demonstrated just how slow a reload takes with a prince 50, for example, then the defense would win.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It doesn't matter why it was made. It's what's written that counts.That is incorrect anyway. It was made to ban AR's and not to make them slower.
spat
.950 JDJ
If your definition of a detachable magazine is one that can be removed with tools, then it does.
Uzi
.308 Win
YES IT IS IF YOU CAN UNFIX IT!
Key words you keep forgetting over and over. Ability to accept. Ability to accept. Ability to accept.
It doesn't say ability to become an SBR or ability to become featured if you are featureless with no grips, bayo lugs, or muzzle brakes. In those cases, the rifle is how it's configured.
Now had it said ability to accept a grip or muzzle brake, now you are talking.
"Ability to accept" would imply that I don't already have a legally fixed rifle which isn't able to accept detachable magazines. "Unfixing it" would imply you're intentionally constructing an illegal firearm to accept detachable magazines, or changing the function or features legally. Either way, when it's fixed, it does not have the ability to accept detachable magazines. I know this is really difficult to understand.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. A detachable magazine is one that is designed to be detached for reloading and not replacement or maintenance.
AR magazines are designed and marketed as detachable. A tubular magazine is designed as a fixed magazine.