The only solution is to allow law abiding citizens to carry firearms and to have armed guards in the schools. Laws will NEVER prevent this from happening. I'm sick of listening to that congressman (CT, I believe) who stated that this only happens in the USA. Lies!
Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school
- Thread starter Catskillkid
- Start date
I've participated in my district on a parent outreach on how to make school safer and more secure earlier this year after a kid was caught with a gun on school property (it didn't make the news)
It gets complicated very quickly and most of the measures are just feel good window dressing that will do nothing from actually stopping a semi intelligent person from planning and committing these atrocities.
it's a balancing act.
Do we want our schools to feel like a prison?
Are we OK with more than quadrupling the time it takes to have kids enter schools through controlled entry metal detectors every day in all weather conditions and further messing up bus schedules and times to transport students. (The kids are still vulnerable lined up outside). Hardening schools cost major $ and people aren't going to think it's great when school taxes go up 50%. They will complain about that. Politicians will argue where state and federal money get spent they still have their pet projects and pork and money laundering to look after
It costs well into 6 figures to hire 1 single sworn police department officer as a school resource officer. Apparently the officers get to bid on the role and usually the high seniority guys take it who are making a lot of money and all their associated costs. You can hire more hall monitors for much cheaper but their capabilities are limited other than preventing fights and trying to identify problem kids or getting a pulse on the school.
Allowing teachers and staff who choose to be armed and trained is all well and good but most teachers likely are not wanting that responsibility and or have the abilities to effectively carry out those duties. And just wait until one of them does something irresponsible like drop their gun in class or walks away from their desk and little Timmy finds their pistol in a purse or desk. It's going to happen. Again it's pros and cons.
Short of turning school into an airport/prison there isn't much you can do that doesn't have major drawback. I quite frankly don't know what the answer should be but it needs to be thorough and comprehensive. We need to be treating the disease not the symptoms and it needs to be layered.
We need to eliminate the causes of what sets people on the path of thinking this is an acceptable idea.
We need to identify those types of people and intervene
We need to reduce and mitigate their ability to carry out their actions
We need to protect children and schools
If all those preventive proactive measures fail there needs to be better solution to immediately stop kinetic actions and hard protect students while in schools.
spat
.950 JDJ
Laws don't stop people from committing crime.
Laws only allow you to punish them afterwards.
Incarceration can stop them from committing crimes, but laws alone never will.
Laws...
Don't PREVENT their violation... Or COMPEL compliance!
It's the individual and how they obey law(s) and moral compliance with the highest law...
Thou Shalt Not Kill!
And oh, Murder is already illegal, not sure how any STRONGER law could be applied...
Is interesting though, and more study would be required, but these things do seem to come and go in spurts, like the media glorification of the perpetrator certainly effectuates copy cat bullshit!
Hey, I can go out in a blaze if glory, they'll talk about me after I've died! I'll be famous if I kill the most!
I'm not a religious zealot, I don't go to church every Sunday. But I do believe in GOD, or some higher being and I do believe we have a serious issue in society with the loss of religion! Period! Yes, I agree it was created with controlling the masses as a main result. But maybe, that, over eons, was what provided at least some semblance of a society of man, that could co-exist with his neighbor!
The additional effect of the Liberal Progressive Agenda and it's attack on social order, or normality, has borne fruit, although not a single politician will recognize it! Same goes for the attack on law enforcement and the neutering of its application! The smoke signals sent to every single miscreant across the land is clear...
Only the law abiding obeys laws, only the law abiding would suffer any knee jerk reactive Legislative action taken in response to this!
But what can be done?
How about an honest discussion and round table about the metal state of citizens and the after effects of Covid lockdowns and controls instituted by Govt. Include the facts of crime upsurges and handcuffing law enforcement. Be clear about how mental health Care is an out patient medical prescription with zero follow up! Let's talk about educators responsibility outside promoting alternative lifestyle agendas! And lastly, be truthful, and remove any and all so called "gun free" zones that create the atmosphere of vulnerability to law abiding citizens, and opportunity to those who would break the highest law!
Stop villifying those you want to divert attention to for political gain! Maybe invite them to the table instead. Centrist politics is dead... And it's all to obvious nothing get accomplished when you do so. Was easy to afix blame in Buffalo, but now, it's someone or something elses fault! Only an idiot buys into that shit! Unfortunately, there's a lot of idiots in this country!
My wife asked me this morning before she left for work... Why do we need ASSAULT RIFLES? Lol... She knows I'm an ardent 2A supporter! But it was a discussion she really didn't want to hear my answer to. Only saying she felt it was too easy with them, for these type of events... I began the entire education program of what and where ASSAULT came from, etc. And explained how there's 150,000,000 people who own guns who don't go around shooting up places and people. I quickly explained that it isn't Gov't job to punish those 150 million with Infringing laws, because of the actions of the few mental misfit miscreants and gangbangers! Etc., Etc., Etc...
But I am left to wonder, especially since the last Assault Weapons Ban had no effect... What's different this time? Why has the frequency of these events increased? What societal forces effectuate their being? And of course why... Why a school? Innocents... Can't fight back... Etc.
Man oh man, MAN the fuck up! You wanna play, then pick on the biggest though guy! Otherwise these pussies are just that. And yeah, I'm glad this time, the LE ran to the fire, and didn't sit and wait like that POS in Florida... Because this MF'er might have won the prize then!
And they say video games have nothing to do with it... I think that should be reconsidered too, just like the Hollywood promotion of bad guy gang bangers etc.
No easy answers though... No easy answers!
I do believe an armed society is a polite society. And heaven forbid I'm ever caught in something like this, I hope even if I go, I take the MF'er with me and I'm laying in a pile of brass!!!
God Bless those families effected by this terrible murdering POS!
/End Rambling...
Don't PREVENT their violation... Or COMPEL compliance!
It's the individual and how they obey law(s) and moral compliance with the highest law...
Thou Shalt Not Kill!
And oh, Murder is already illegal, not sure how any STRONGER law could be applied...
Is interesting though, and more study would be required, but these things do seem to come and go in spurts, like the media glorification of the perpetrator certainly effectuates copy cat bullshit!
Hey, I can go out in a blaze if glory, they'll talk about me after I've died! I'll be famous if I kill the most!
I'm not a religious zealot, I don't go to church every Sunday. But I do believe in GOD, or some higher being and I do believe we have a serious issue in society with the loss of religion! Period! Yes, I agree it was created with controlling the masses as a main result. But maybe, that, over eons, was what provided at least some semblance of a society of man, that could co-exist with his neighbor!
The additional effect of the Liberal Progressive Agenda and it's attack on social order, or normality, has borne fruit, although not a single politician will recognize it! Same goes for the attack on law enforcement and the neutering of its application! The smoke signals sent to every single miscreant across the land is clear...
Only the law abiding obeys laws, only the law abiding would suffer any knee jerk reactive Legislative action taken in response to this!
But what can be done?
How about an honest discussion and round table about the metal state of citizens and the after effects of Covid lockdowns and controls instituted by Govt. Include the facts of crime upsurges and handcuffing law enforcement. Be clear about how mental health Care is an out patient medical prescription with zero follow up! Let's talk about educators responsibility outside promoting alternative lifestyle agendas! And lastly, be truthful, and remove any and all so called "gun free" zones that create the atmosphere of vulnerability to law abiding citizens, and opportunity to those who would break the highest law!
Stop villifying those you want to divert attention to for political gain! Maybe invite them to the table instead. Centrist politics is dead... And it's all to obvious nothing get accomplished when you do so. Was easy to afix blame in Buffalo, but now, it's someone or something elses fault! Only an idiot buys into that shit! Unfortunately, there's a lot of idiots in this country!
My wife asked me this morning before she left for work... Why do we need ASSAULT RIFLES? Lol... She knows I'm an ardent 2A supporter! But it was a discussion she really didn't want to hear my answer to. Only saying she felt it was too easy with them, for these type of events... I began the entire education program of what and where ASSAULT came from, etc. And explained how there's 150,000,000 people who own guns who don't go around shooting up places and people. I quickly explained that it isn't Gov't job to punish those 150 million with Infringing laws, because of the actions of the few mental misfit miscreants and gangbangers! Etc., Etc., Etc...
But I am left to wonder, especially since the last Assault Weapons Ban had no effect... What's different this time? Why has the frequency of these events increased? What societal forces effectuate their being? And of course why... Why a school? Innocents... Can't fight back... Etc.
Man oh man, MAN the fuck up! You wanna play, then pick on the biggest though guy! Otherwise these pussies are just that. And yeah, I'm glad this time, the LE ran to the fire, and didn't sit and wait like that POS in Florida... Because this MF'er might have won the prize then!
And they say video games have nothing to do with it... I think that should be reconsidered too, just like the Hollywood promotion of bad guy gang bangers etc.
No easy answers though... No easy answers!
I do believe an armed society is a polite society. And heaven forbid I'm ever caught in something like this, I hope even if I go, I take the MF'er with me and I'm laying in a pile of brass!!!
God Bless those families effected by this terrible murdering POS!
/End Rambling...
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Prominent Democrats immediately blamed Republicans for the shooting, with at least one hurling profanities at multiple Republicans.
"F--- your prayers. They haven’t worked for the last 20 mass shootings how about passing laws that will stop these killings," Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., tweeted at Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.
Gallego also tweeted at Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas: "Just to be clear f--- you @tedcruz you f---ing baby killer."
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., also was quick to blame Republicans.
"There is no such thing as being ‘pro-life’ while supporting laws that let children be shot in their schools, elders in grocery stores, worshippers in their houses of faith, survivors by abusers, or anyone in a crowded place," she wrote on Twitter. "It is an idolatry of violence. And it must end."
www.foxnews.com
"F--- your prayers. They haven’t worked for the last 20 mass shootings how about passing laws that will stop these killings," Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., tweeted at Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.
Gallego also tweeted at Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas: "Just to be clear f--- you @tedcruz you f---ing baby killer."
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., also was quick to blame Republicans.
"There is no such thing as being ‘pro-life’ while supporting laws that let children be shot in their schools, elders in grocery stores, worshippers in their houses of faith, survivors by abusers, or anyone in a crowded place," she wrote on Twitter. "It is an idolatry of violence. And it must end."
Uvalde, Texas school shooting: Democrats demand gun control, curse Republicans: 'F--- your prayers'
Democrats rushed to capitalize on the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday to demand gun control measures and attack Republicans.
www.foxnews.com
I can tell by your rambling and
Must remove guns, must bankrupt America in order to take it over.
They will have the sheep begging to be constantly monitored and "you will own nothing and like it" you dumb serfs.
Lets see if I can put a finger on the problem:
No family any more.
No religion.
No schooling, only men can have babies.
I am woman hear me roar.
If you look woman are running most everything now.
Now read the communist manifesto, think of where we are today; confused children, rampant homosexuals, pedos everywhere, no one ever responsible for self, etc..
Time to be men if the oath mumblers would let us and take back the U.S.A..
So normal people are Fked.
They will have the sheep begging to be constantly monitored and "you will own nothing and like it" you dumb serfs.
Lets see if I can put a finger on the problem:
No family any more.
No religion.
No schooling, only men can have babies.
I am woman hear me roar.
If you look woman are running most everything now.
Now read the communist manifesto, think of where we are today; confused children, rampant homosexuals, pedos everywhere, no one ever responsible for self, etc..
Time to be men if the oath mumblers would let us and take back the U.S.A..
So normal people are Fked.
ManualF150
.308 Win
Law abiding teachers and staff should be able to carry concealed in the classroom. It's a tool that will help save young lives and potentially deter this from happening.
A teacher is supposed to foster learning, growth, and be there for the students in times of need.
I also believe an armed society is a polite society.
A school shouldn't need metal detectors, armed guards, locked doors and windows. It does not help with learning and if anything makes criminals to try to see how far they can get to bypass it.
How about knowing that Mrs. "Insert teacher's name here" is packing heat and knows how to use it if you mess with her kids?
A teacher is supposed to foster learning, growth, and be there for the students in times of need.
I also believe an armed society is a polite society.
A school shouldn't need metal detectors, armed guards, locked doors and windows. It does not help with learning and if anything makes criminals to try to see how far they can get to bypass it.
How about knowing that Mrs. "Insert teacher's name here" is packing heat and knows how to use it if you mess with her kids?
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Point of order / nitpick:
The phrase you're looking for, here, is "to die first". Not "protect".
We have a phrase in the firehouse - "A firefighter with no tools is just an well informed bystander."
Committing suicide first, so that you hopefully die before having to see, hear, and smell what happens next, is not "protecting".
Mitigating or stopping the threat is "protecting".
-----
To the general topic on arming teachers, "want that responsability" and such -
If a teacher believes there is a real risk of a school shooting in their classroom in the future, and their plan starts with suicide?
They are mentally fucking ill.
A healthy, sane person would plan for a fight like they are the 3rd monkey on the ramp of the ark, and brother, it's starting to rain.
Suicidal, mentally ill people have NO business "teaching" kids. People wonder where kids get this crap from, I'd wager it starts right there.
Last edited:
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
A large majority of teachers are rabid liberals... very anti gun. They would rather die than protect themselves .
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Hopefully not related to that whackjob tranny. But it makes me wonder.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
As we all know the gun laws in switzerland are no like those here. 18 year olds with a trouble past cannot easily obtain a semi-automatic rifle.
In buffalo an armed guard failed to stop the guy. And in texas this guy had already been engaged by police before entering the school.
Clearly the only way to actually stop these shootings is to stop mentally ill/evil people from obtaining the guns. It's impossible to stop entirely, but throwing our hands up and saying who cares let's try and just arm more people is not reasonable.
Per capita the USA is magnitudes worse for these events than any other western country and these discussions are never honest about why.
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Crippling the rest of us for the sake of mentally ill / evil people is not the proper approach.
Locking those people away is the proper approach.
ManualF150
.308 Win
Exactly. I hear that all the time. They'd jump in front of a person shooting. Well, sorry after the assailant gets done with them, they move on to their next victims.
In my opinion you do anything you can do to protect the kids. Having that effective tool in the classroom adds another layer of security.
Besides, what does dying first do anyway? Only add to a death toll and leaves the students with nothing but themselves.
All adds on to what is being taught in schools and then everything else.
Blimey, I usual agree with you, but the statistics dont this time. Rifles still account for less mass shootings than handguns.
And I know plenty of teachers who do not want to be armed
And according to a survey of 3000 teachers in 2019 (following the Parkland shooting), 95.3% of teachers believe they SHOULD NOT BE CARRYING A GUN IN THE CLASSROOM
Survey Finds that Teachers Do Not Want Guns in the Classroom
In the year since a gunman opened fire on students, faculty and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and killed 17 people, politicians have suggested arming teachers as one way to deter school shootings. But is that what teachers want? The answer is “no,” according to
csunshinetoday.csun.edu
So I think that is a fairly clear response from the teachers you want to make responsible for engaging active shooters in their classrooms
spat
.950 JDJ
OK, so we only arm the 5% that want it.And I know plenty of teachers who do not want to be armed
And according to a survey of 3000 teachers in 2019 (following the Parkland shooting), 95.3% of teachers believe they SHOULD NOT BE CARRYING A GUN IN THE CLASSROOM
Survey Finds that Teachers Do Not Want Guns in the Classroom
In the year since a gunman opened fire on students, faculty and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and killed 17 people, politicians have suggested arming teachers as one way to deter school shootings. But is that what teachers want? The answer is “no,” according to
So I think that is a fairly clear response from the teachers you want to make responsible for engaging active shooters in their classrooms
That should actually be enough to make a major difference.
YES
spat
.950 JDJ
If you can't trust someone with a gun you can't trust them to walk free.
It's impossible to pass any laws that would make guns harder to get than heroine. Heroine is actually easier to get than guns are already, despite the draconian prohibitions on it.
Laws are not the answer.
yeah - OK
And PARENTS do not actually want the teachers to be armed either
So the teachers dont want to be armed and the parents of kids in school dont want teachers armed
But arming the teacher is the solution?
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
anyone who chooses to not be armed should not have to be, those who want to be should be allowed to. but this isnt the only solution.And I know plenty of teachers who do not want to be armed
And according to a survey of 3000 teachers in 2019 (following the Parkland shooting), 95.3% of teachers believe they SHOULD NOT BE CARRYING A GUN IN THE CLASSROOM
Survey Finds that Teachers Do Not Want Guns in the Classroom
In the year since a gunman opened fire on students, faculty and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and killed 17 people, politicians have suggested arming teachers as one way to deter school shootings. But is that what teachers want? The answer is “no,” according to
So I think that is a fairly clear response from the teachers you want to make responsible for engaging active shooters in their classrooms
windows and doors should be bullet proof, with panic buttons in place integrated to the extent that there are no violations of fire code. Armed, trained personnel that look like hall monitors and not Rambo are whats needed as well. Been saying this for 10 years already, and no one wants to hear it. I emailed this to our own superintendent of schools and the response I got was upgraded security and school resource officers which was a step in the right direction but not quite as far as I would like it.
Americans can not have open and honest discussions about real topics.
This little forum of ours proves that.
99cummins
.308 Win
I don’t know what data you would look at but I wonder how we compare to other developed countries as far as mental health. Rates of mental illness, resources available, treatment, length of treatment, criteria identifying someone as mentally ill. We already know the mental health system in this country doesn’t document or report well. The shootings, drugs, homelessness, violent crimes are often a mental health issue disguised as something else. Something people are more comfortable blaming.
I agree entirely
The security should have several aspects - alarm systems, secure doors, bullet proof glass, armed personnel, tazers in the classroom, guards, whatever we can do to protect the children
Again, thinking of security in banks, etc.....................this on the classroom door as an example
We were able to find over $40B for Ukraine - funding for schools should be possible
spat
.950 JDJ
Ahh, the Washington post.
Yea, their readers are probably horrified at the idea.
But for the actual intelligent people in the world, I think they should have the option to send their kids to a school that actually does something besides hopes and prayers to keep their kids safe.
Disarmament policies and laws cannot ever been any more effective than the war on drugs, which is to say not effective at all.
What's the definition of insanity again ?
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
It would be too hard for them to launder it.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
What a
www.thegatewaypundit.com
"Sit Down!... You're a Sick Son-of-a-B*tch" - Gun-Grabber Beto O'Rourke Interrupts TX Presser Following Mass Shooting - Audience Erupts (VIDEO) | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft
Governor Greg Abbott held a press conference on Wednesday morning following the horrific mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas on Tuesday.
www.thegatewaypundit.com