Temporary Restaining Order Issued For Concealed Carry Improvement Act (merged thread)

John Stark

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CaliberPlus said:
Aaannndd, here we are all just waiting.
Click to expand...
Waiting for what?

Oh right, permission from the Government to make use of a privilege that they can revoke at will, or spoon feed us as they see fit in the rare circumstances they allow us to live our lives under their benevolent rule.

That's what you get with permission slips.

If only we were talking about Rights enshrined in our Law! Pity we don't have those.
 
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JunkBoxFull

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Saltwater60 said:
And you’ll be waiting a few more months, then you’ll get bad news and then you will wait for….??? Oh and you’ll like it.
Click to expand...
And when they use up those "few more months", more will be added.

The majority of the gun culture did this to themselves for DECADES UPON DECADES.

And here we are.
 
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John Stark said:
Waiting for what?

Oh right, permission from the Government to make use of a privilege that they can revoke at will, or spoon feed us as they see fit in the rare circumstances they allow us to live our lives under their benevolent rule.

That's what you get with permission slips.

If only we were talking about Rights enshrined in our Law! Pity we don't have those.
Click to expand...
Ok, so what are you doing any different?
I am not happy with any of this and since I try to comply because it is a federal and state license that I carry to sell.... Until we can move it seems like that is about as much as I can thumb my nose at the garbage, putting a few more guns out there.

If anyone notice the SC also turned down the suit brought by several gun stores asking for emergency relief.

ZeroHedge

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Grimscale

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It's disgusting that the SC will put the 2nd Circus before the People.
The SC said they want the 2nd Circus, well known for its unConstitutional rulings, to have a chance to do their jobs. A job they have screwed up for decades, remember, before the SC will even look at the issue. in the mean time the Rights of ALL Americans in NYS are lost.

This does not bode well to me.

It's time we jump on board with the leftist's demands to suspend the Constitution. After all, without the constitution the leftists don't even have the pretense of authority. And all laws are nothing more than demands enforced at gunpoint.
 
spat

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What I'd like to see is someone challenge the entire NFA over this.

Claim the law is unconstitutionally vague, since even the federal agency tasked with enforcement can determine what is prohibited consistently.

I.e. if the foremost experts in the world on the NFA got bump stocks wrong (either before, or now) then obviously the law doesn't provide clear notice to the public about what is and isn't prohibited.

That's the classic definition of unconstitutionally vague.

It would be fantastic if their change of policy on bumpstocks led to the downfall of the entire MG prohibition. "The ATF can't even tell what is or isn't a machinegun prohibited by NFA 34, what hope does the public have".
 
John Stark

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CaliberPlus said:
Ok, so what are you doing any different?
I am not happy with any of this and since I try to comply because it is a federal and state license that I carry to sell.... Until we can move it seems like that is about as much as I can thumb my nose at the garbage, putting a few more guns out there.

If anyone notice the SC also turned down the suit brought by several gun stores asking for emergency relief.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com
Click to expand...
Typically when I post I am not attempting to make it a matter of going after someone in a personal manner, so I was not singling you out. I endeavor to do deal with ideas, policy, viewpoints, theory, and so on, with pointed comments about the consequences taking certain stands or accepting certain views entail. That doesn't mean that I have never resorted to rhetorical fisticuffs on occasion on this forum, but it is typically not my intention to single out one person in some Alinky-esque manner.

That being said, you stated something along the lines of "here we all are waiting..." on the courts. Seems pretty clear that you meant, "Waiting on the courts to find out if we can exercise our RKBA."

And THAT is precisely the problem.

I don't know how long you've been posting here. I have consistently stated that giving up any fundamental Right for a permission slip to exercise a privilege leads to obvious consequences; such as, begging government for permission to do things WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO AS DETAILED IN OUR LAWS.

Everyone in this thread is crying over their beer that the State of NY has curtailed their RKBA, and yet just about every single person posing in this thread GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERMITTING SCHEME.

Now, years ago, after encouraging people to refuse to go along with the the UnSafe Act, when the "lifetime" permit to Keep and/or Bear a handgun in this state turned into a "5 year recert," I gave many of the same people in this thread some oddball advice.

Namely, to throw that permission slip away, and refuse to go along with the scheme any longer.

None of us in NY were around in 1911 when the scheme came into being. It was "the way things are" and what people in this state were stuck with because their ancestors had gone along with it. Most recognized that the process to get a premise or a conceal carry permit was onerous, unconstitutional, and so on. That being said, for those without a criminal record, it was a "lifetime" permit as long as people followed the rules, and "allowed for" quite a lot of "freedom" for self-defense.

Now lots of people on these forums stated that the 5 year recert was probably going to lead to worse consequences for NYers who wanted to own hand guns, so I was not some prophet or seer in pointing out what others were also seeing on how things were going. However, I was basically the ONLY person who recommended that NYers throw those damn permission slips in the trash and refuse to go along with the permitting schemes the evil bastards in Albany were going to keep coming up with to curtail our Rights for as long as we were willing to go along with them.

Now here we are years later, and everyone is bemoaning the fact that "we" are somehow still "waiting to get our rights back."

Though I do not post a lot, I am a long time participant going back to the old NY Firearms forum. I have consistently stated that NYers need to stop gambling in the casinos, so to speak, where the house (Albany) always wins when it comes to the RKBA. There are reasons I don't post a lot, and one of them is the fact that I typically don't like to say anything unless I think I actually have something worth saying.

Since you have intimated that "we" are waiting on our rights, I took your statement at face value; that you were including "me" in that "waiting" given that I have posted numerous times in this very thread, and have never made any bones about speaking my mind on this forum.

Well, I am NOT part of the "we" in this equation. I exercise my Rights as I see fit, just as I speak my mind.

There are 3-4 million freaking hand gun permit holders in this freaking state, for God's sake! If you folks would simply STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GET OFF THE MERRY GO ROUND, the retards running this "state" wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind!

Instead, NYers keep lining up for their permission slips, and keep reaching into their wallets, to appease people in Albany who will never be appeased until everyone in this state are DISARMED.

The one bright light after UnSafe was the fact that most people in NY refused to register their rifles. Of course, most complied by modifying them to get around the registration scheme, so there still was compliance even if almost everything people had was "readily convertible" to their pre-UnSafe status.

The boo hoo hoo from the crybabies regarding the new permitting schemes is utterly pathetic. Everyone in NY who rails about Infringement goes right along with it, so too bad!

Well, I refuse to ask for permission to exercise my Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sorry the rest of you keep complying.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: when Whorecul puts out a new mandate that men in this state will have to service her "needs" and "appetites" in order to get a permission slip, there are lots of NY "men" that will line right up for that, rubbers and KY jelly in hand.
 
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JunkBoxFull

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John Stark said:
Typically when I post I am not attempting to make it a matter of going after someone in a personal manner, so I was not singling you out. I endeavor to do deal with ideas, policy, viewpoints, theory, and so on, with pointed comments about the consequences taking certain stands or accepting certain views entail. That doesn't mean that I have never resorted to rhetorical fisticuffs on occasion on this forum, but it is typically not my intention to single out one person in some Alinky-esque manner.

That being said, you stated something along the lines of "here we all are waiting..." on the courts. Seems pretty clear that you meant, "Waiting on the courts to find out if we can exercise our RKBA."

And THAT is precisely the problem.

I don't know how long you've been posting here. I have consistently stated that giving up any fundamental Right for a permission slip to exercise a privilege leads to obvious consequences; such as, begging government for permission to do things WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO AS DETAILED IN OUR LAWS.

Everyone in this thread is crying over their beer that the State of NY has curtailed their RKBA, and yet just about every single person posing in this thread GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERMITTING SCHEME.

Now, years ago, after encouraging people to refuse to go along with the the UnSafe Act, when the "lifetime" permit to Keep and/or Bear a handgun in this state turned into a "5 year recert," I gave many of the same people in this thread some oddball advice.

Namely, to throw that permission slip away, and refuse to go along with the scheme any longer.

None of us in NY were around in 1911 when the scheme came into being. It was "the way things are" and what people in this state were stuck with because their ancestors had gone along with it. Most recognized that the process to get a premise or a conceal carry permit was onerous, unconstitutional, and so on. That being said, for those without a criminal record, it was a "lifetime" permit as long as people followed the rules, and "allowed for" quite a lot of "freedom" for self-defense.

Now lots of people on these forums stated that the 5 year recert was probably going to lead to worse consequences for NYers who wanted to own hand guns, so I was not some prophet or seer in pointing out what others were also seeing on how things were going. However, I was basically the ONLY person who recommended that NYers throw those damn permission slips in the trash and refuse to go along with the permitting schemes the evil bastards in Albany were going to keep coming up with to curtail our Rights for as long as we were willing to go along with them.

Now here we are years later, and everyone is bemoaning the fact that "we" are somehow still "waiting to get our rights back."

Though I do not post a lot, I am a long time participant going back to the old NY Firearms forum. I have consistently stated that NYers need to stop gambling in the casinos, so to speak, where the house (Albany) always wins when it comes to the RKBA. There are reasons I don't post a lot, and one of them is the fact that I typically don't like to say anything unless I think I actually have something worth saying.

Since you have intimated that "we" are waiting on our rights, I took your statement at face value; that you were including "me" in that "waiting" given that I have posted numerous times in this very thread, and have never made any bones about speaking my mind on this forum.

Well, I am NOT part of the "we" in this equation. I exercise my Rights as I see fit, just as I speak my mind.

There are 3-4 million freaking hand gun permit holders in this freaking state, for God's sake! If you folks would simply STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GET OFF THE MERRY GO ROUND, the retards running this "state" wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind!

Instead, NYers keep lining up for their permission slips, and keep reaching into their wallets, to appease people in Albany who will never be appeased until everyone in this state are DISARMED.

The one bright light after UnSafe was the fact that most people in NY refused to register their rifles. Of course, most complied by modifying them to get around the registration scheme, so there still was compliance even if almost everything people had was "readily convertible" to their pre-UnSafe status.

The boo hoo hoo from the crybabies regarding the new permitting schemes is utterly pathetic. Everyone in NY who rails about Infringement goes right along with it, so too bad!

Well, I refuse to ask for permission to exercise my Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sorry the rest of you keep complying.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: when Whorecul puts out a new mandate that men in this state will have to service her "needs" and "appetites" in order to get a permission slip, there are lots of NY "men" that will line right up for that, rubbers and KY jelly in hand.
Click to expand...
Quite the rant there John. So, i only have one simple question, sir. How do YOU get YOUR handguns, without the "permission slip"?
Maybe if the rest of us knew how to obtain our handguns without a "permission slip", legally, less people would be "crying" about it.
 
Saltwater60

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John Stark said:
Typically when I post I am not attempting to make it a matter of going after someone in a personal manner, so I was not singling you out. I endeavor to do deal with ideas, policy, viewpoints, theory, and so on, with pointed comments about the consequences taking certain stands or accepting certain views entail. That doesn't mean that I have never resorted to rhetorical fisticuffs on occasion on this forum, but it is typically not my intention to single out one person in some Alinky-esque manner.

That being said, you stated something along the lines of "here we all are waiting..." on the courts. Seems pretty clear that you meant, "Waiting on the courts to find out if we can exercise our RKBA."

And THAT is precisely the problem.

I don't know how long you've been posting here. I have consistently stated that giving up any fundamental Right for a permission slip to exercise a privilege leads to obvious consequences; such as, begging government for permission to do things WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO AS DETAILED IN OUR LAWS.

Everyone in this thread is crying over their beer that the State of NY has curtailed their RKBA, and yet just about every single person posing in this thread GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERMITTING SCHEME.

Now, years ago, after encouraging people to refuse to go along with the the UnSafe Act, when the "lifetime" permit to Keep and/or Bear a handgun in this state turned into a "5 year recert," I gave many of the same people in this thread some oddball advice.

Namely, to throw that permission slip away, and refuse to go along with the scheme any longer.

None of us in NY were around in 1911 when the scheme came into being. It was "the way things are" and what people in this state were stuck with because their ancestors had gone along with it. Most recognized that the process to get a premise or a conceal carry permit was onerous, unconstitutional, and so on. That being said, for those without a criminal record, it was a "lifetime" permit as long as people followed the rules, and "allowed for" quite a lot of "freedom" for self-defense.

Now lots of people on these forums stated that the 5 year recert was probably going to lead to worse consequences for NYers who wanted to own hand guns, so I was not some prophet or seer in pointing out what others were also seeing on how things were going. However, I was basically the ONLY person who recommended that NYers throw those damn permission slips in the trash and refuse to go along with the permitting schemes the evil bastards in Albany were going to keep coming up with to curtail our Rights for as long as we were willing to go along with them.

Now here we are years later, and everyone is bemoaning the fact that "we" are somehow still "waiting to get our rights back."

Though I do not post a lot, I am a long time participant going back to the old NY Firearms forum. I have consistently stated that NYers need to stop gambling in the casinos, so to speak, where the house (Albany) always wins when it comes to the RKBA. There are reasons I don't post a lot, and one of them is the fact that I typically don't like to say anything unless I think I actually have something worth saying.

Since you have intimated that "we" are waiting on our rights, I took your statement at face value; that you were including "me" in that "waiting" given that I have posted numerous times in this very thread, and have never made any bones about speaking my mind on this forum.

Well, I am NOT part of the "we" in this equation. I exercise my Rights as I see fit, just as I speak my mind.

There are 3-4 million freaking hand gun permit holders in this freaking state, for God's sake! If you folks would simply STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GET OFF THE MERRY GO ROUND, the retards running this "state" wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind!

Instead, NYers keep lining up for their permission slips, and keep reaching into their wallets, to appease people in Albany who will never be appeased until everyone in this state are DISARMED.

The one bright light after UnSafe was the fact that most people in NY refused to register their rifles. Of course, most complied by modifying them to get around the registration scheme, so there still was compliance even if almost everything people had was "readily convertible" to their pre-UnSafe status.

The boo hoo hoo from the crybabies regarding the new permitting schemes is utterly pathetic. Everyone in NY who rails about Infringement goes right along with it, so too bad!

Well, I refuse to ask for permission to exercise my Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sorry the rest of you keep complying.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: when Whorecul puts out a new mandate that men in this state will have to service her "needs" and "appetites" in order to get a permission slip, there are lots of NY "men" that will line right up for that, rubbers and KY jelly in hand.
Click to expand...
So you’re saying we should all be super felons and just not care because that will accomplish what? We will still need the permission slip or face arrest. Most people will never use a pistol in a self defense situation so you’re risking a felony for what? Now don’t get me wrong I’m at the point where I’m not going to budge on much more but a felony would ruin my life. I’d lose my job, my wife would probably leave me, I’d lose everything I have worked for, I’d lose my home and that’s just not worth it to me. Call me a pussy or whatever you want but I’ll turn and run out of NYS someday and that’s my plan. Nys has nothing left to fight for. I hate this state and everything except the landscape.
 
M

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The politicians are ruining the landscape... heck, they don't even want us using the friggin Adirondack trails.

Farming in NY has gone to the shitter, and where there was farms, they took it over and turned it into a strip mall or housing. I got plenty of places I can go on and on and on about this.
 
JunkBoxFull

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livingston said:

SCOTUS Smackdown!! 2nd Circuit Expedites 5 Gun Control Challenges To Hearings On The Same Day! 3/20/2023​


Click to expand...
A very close friend of mine is named in one of the 5 cases. I`m hoping he wins. But i`m not getting my hopes up. The tyrants will just ATF`it, change some wording and meanings around, and right back to a court again in a different named lawsuit, with the exact same goals. They have UNLIMITED FUNDS, (your tax dollars) to keep right on infringing. This BS will never stop. Just a different name on the papers with never ending lawsuits.
 
zorro

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John Stark said:
Typically when I post I am not attempting to make it a matter of going after someone in a personal manner, so I was not singling you out. I endeavor to do deal with ideas, policy, viewpoints, theory, and so on, with pointed comments about the consequences taking certain stands or accepting certain views entail. That doesn't mean that I have never resorted to rhetorical fisticuffs on occasion on this forum, but it is typically not my intention to single out one person in some Alinky-esque manner.

That being said, you stated something along the lines of "here we all are waiting..." on the courts. Seems pretty clear that you meant, "Waiting on the courts to find out if we can exercise our RKBA."

And THAT is precisely the problem.

I don't know how long you've been posting here. I have consistently stated that giving up any fundamental Right for a permission slip to exercise a privilege leads to obvious consequences; such as, begging government for permission to do things WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO AS DETAILED IN OUR LAWS.

Everyone in this thread is crying over their beer that the State of NY has curtailed their RKBA, and yet just about every single person posing in this thread GOES RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERMITTING SCHEME.

Now, years ago, after encouraging people to refuse to go along with the the UnSafe Act, when the "lifetime" permit to Keep and/or Bear a handgun in this state turned into a "5 year recert," I gave many of the same people in this thread some oddball advice.

Namely, to throw that permission slip away, and refuse to go along with the scheme any longer.

None of us in NY were around in 1911 when the scheme came into being. It was "the way things are" and what people in this state were stuck with because their ancestors had gone along with it. Most recognized that the process to get a premise or a conceal carry permit was onerous, unconstitutional, and so on. That being said, for those without a criminal record, it was a "lifetime" permit as long as people followed the rules, and "allowed for" quite a lot of "freedom" for self-defense.

Now lots of people on these forums stated that the 5 year recert was probably going to lead to worse consequences for NYers who wanted to own hand guns, so I was not some prophet or seer in pointing out what others were also seeing on how things were going. However, I was basically the ONLY person who recommended that NYers throw those damn permission slips in the trash and refuse to go along with the permitting schemes the evil bastards in Albany were going to keep coming up with to curtail our Rights for as long as we were willing to go along with them.

Now here we are years later, and everyone is bemoaning the fact that "we" are somehow still "waiting to get our rights back."

Though I do not post a lot, I am a long time participant going back to the old NY Firearms forum. I have consistently stated that NYers need to stop gambling in the casinos, so to speak, where the house (Albany) always wins when it comes to the RKBA. There are reasons I don't post a lot, and one of them is the fact that I typically don't like to say anything unless I think I actually have something worth saying.

Since you have intimated that "we" are waiting on our rights, I took your statement at face value; that you were including "me" in that "waiting" given that I have posted numerous times in this very thread, and have never made any bones about speaking my mind on this forum.

Well, I am NOT part of the "we" in this equation. I exercise my Rights as I see fit, just as I speak my mind.

There are 3-4 million freaking hand gun permit holders in this freaking state, for God's sake! If you folks would simply STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GET OFF THE MERRY GO ROUND, the retards running this "state" wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind!

Instead, NYers keep lining up for their permission slips, and keep reaching into their wallets, to appease people in Albany who will never be appeased until everyone in this state are DISARMED.

The one bright light after UnSafe was the fact that most people in NY refused to register their rifles. Of course, most complied by modifying them to get around the registration scheme, so there still was compliance even if almost everything people had was "readily convertible" to their pre-UnSafe status.

The boo hoo hoo from the crybabies regarding the new permitting schemes is utterly pathetic. Everyone in NY who rails about Infringement goes right along with it, so too bad!

Well, I refuse to ask for permission to exercise my Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sorry the rest of you keep complying.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: when Whorecul puts out a new mandate that men in this state will have to service her "needs" and "appetites" in order to get a permission slip, there are lots of NY "men" that will line right up for that, rubbers and KY jelly in hand.
Click to expand...

So I assume that you open carry, walk along 5th Avenue with an AR and somehow also manage to purchase a gun without any permit, application or background check?

Wow - incredible
 
zorro

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Saltwater60 said:
So you’re saying we should all be super felons and just not care because that will accomplish what? We will still need the permission slip or face arrest. Most people will never use a pistol in a self defense situation so you’re risking a felony for what? Now don’t get me wrong I’m at the point where I’m not going to budge on much more but a felony would ruin my life. I’d lose my job, my wife would probably leave me, I’d lose everything I have worked for, I’d lose my home and that’s just not worth it to me. Call me a pussy or whatever you want but I’ll turn and run out of NYS someday and that’s my plan. Nys has nothing left to fight for. I hate this state and everything
Click to expand...

Saltwater60 said:
except the landsc
Click to expand...
Saltwater60 said:
So you’re saying we should all be super felons and just not care because that will accomplish what? We will still need the permission slip or face arrest. Most people will never use a pistol in a self defense situation so you’re risking a felony for what? Now don’t get me wrong I’m at the point where I’m not going to budge on much more but a felony would ruin my life. I’d lose my job, my wife would probably leave me, I’d lose everything I have worked for, I’d lose my home and that’s just not worth it to me. Call me a pussy or whatever you want but I’ll turn and run out of NYS someday and that’s my plan. Nys has nothing left to fight for. I hate this state and everything except the landscape.
Click to expand...

100% agree with you
 
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