Trauma47645
.357 mag
Read the whole statement, not just what you want to read and try again ..
Traveler From Texas to Maine Had Unregistered Handguns in Kent
- Thread starter FCG LLC
- Start date
Read the whole statement, not just what you want to read and try again ..
I did read your entire statement. It is a decent point; but does not change the fact that there are laws; if broken, punishment may occur.
Why is this concept so hard for you to understand?
Trauma47645
.357 mag
Again you miss the point of the whole statement..
Read it again.. all the words.. and try again sparky
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Wow. Might as well change the name of this site to NYFII and start "newyorkgunforum.com" and try again.
Different Drummer
.44 mag
Once in a while when someone finds themselves away from their home environment they may act as they usually do on their home turf. Call it what you like, be it forgetfulness, lack of knowledge , plain ignorance or perhaps acting out of habit.
i.e. When I arrived in Florida I visited a rather large firearms dealer. I asked to fondle a revolver and at the same time I I placed my CCW Lic. upon the countertop for the girl helping me to see. Did she ever give me a strange look!! I sheepishly said "oops, sorry I am from NY". She replied "oh, too bad".
Point I make is I really cannot see what the problem would have been if the LGS explained to the woman what the law is in regards to transporting the handguns across NYS. Perhaps even offering to help her continue her journey and remain out of trouble as she did so. Maybe after counseling her on proper transport, offer to sell her a container and / or lock to get out of NYS in a legal fashion.
JMHO
i.e. When I arrived in Florida I visited a rather large firearms dealer. I asked to fondle a revolver and at the same time I I placed my CCW Lic. upon the countertop for the girl helping me to see. Did she ever give me a strange look!! I sheepishly said "oops, sorry I am from NY". She replied "oh, too bad".
Point I make is I really cannot see what the problem would have been if the LGS explained to the woman what the law is in regards to transporting the handguns across NYS. Perhaps even offering to help her continue her journey and remain out of trouble as she did so. Maybe after counseling her on proper transport, offer to sell her a container and / or lock to get out of NYS in a legal fashion.
JMHO
She really did nothing wrong other than uncase the handgun while stopped, at an FFL, who then ratted her out and chose to put a cop into an untenable situation.
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Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Agreed
fartgamer
.223 Rem
Precision is the Dick's of Putnam.
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
That is the point.
We have some egregious laws. But, they are still laws. Agents of the state executive branch are charged with enforcing the laws. Once they do, those laws can be brought into the true light of day, adjudicated, and properly challenged in full view of our citizenry.
In this case, we would like to have seen things play out differently. In other cases, we collectively think otherwise.
Law enforcement should enforce laws.
Unjust laws should be challenged openly in court.
Legislators that propose and pass unjust laws should be removed from office by the people.
Our problem is that we live in a state where a majority of voters accept and even desire unconstitutional infringement upon our 2nd amendment rights.
Being desirous of law enforcement agents that individually interpret all laws at all times leaves us with unequal application of laws and a systemic breakdown in the intended surety of justice.
mickw
.40 S&W
This above in red, seems to hit the nail on the head. It's a shame when a business that sells firearms can't even look out for a fellow gun owner, particularly when they are from out of state. Especially here in NY...we are so behind in the 2A curve, you would think the legitimate firearms dealers would help a brother or sister out with some friendly, down to earth guidance on the matter.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The system in this state is broken.
"The law is the law" was not a reasonable excuse for people hunting escaped slaves, it wasn't an excuse for people rounding up jews, and it is not an excuse now.
When the powerful can violate the law with impunity, when the courts uphold obviously unconstitutional laws based on their personal biases, the system is broken.
"The law is the law" has been the mantra used to justify every one of the most egregious violations of human rights in history. You'll have to excuse me if i don't find your reliance on it here very convincing.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Do you mean they are the Dick's or dicks of Putnam?
Because the only thing Dick's did wrong was to stop selling certain products. They didn't unnecessarily rat out a customer who was down on her luck to the cops. The other dicks did that.
mickw
.40 S&W
Just playing devil's advocate here...any chance Precision Armory was worried about some kind of a NYS "sting operation" (if they even exist) and that's why they acted the way they did?
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
If we cannot rely on the system, or at least some chance to change it, then we have nothing - No order, no law, no society, no security.
I think the problem is not that we cannot rely on "the system." The problem is that we have been utterly betrayed by those who have seized control of the reigns of power and who are kept there by the ignorant, or hopelessly propagandized, citizenry who are content in their guilded cage.
We must address the problem at one of several levels. Which one is now most assured of success? I no longer know.
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garyv350
.357 mag
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Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
No.
I point this out all the time and it is usually blown off. Down here in the city, some of the worst people to deal with in regards to guns aren't cops but those involved in the firearms industry or shooting clubs. My own club is so-so, but even then there are always a few guys walking around checking to see if guests have permits or stopping to check if you have more than 5rds in a mag. I literally work in the precinct that covers the range and know 100% that no cop will ever wander in there to check these things, as do they. But they still do it. Religiously.
All they had to tell her was to lock it up. Maybe provide the means to do so if she hadn't already. I can't imagine some investigative body using this set of facts to conduct a sting. Those operations are always blatantly obvious. Like when a kid comes in to buy alcohol, they will ridiculously state "Mr., I know I'm only 19 but..." (and stores still fail lol)
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
Please forgive my ignorance on this matter, but how does this differ significantly from the following scenario? An elderly lady walks into a LGS with a handgun that, she says, had belonged to her now deceased husband. She has a COPY of his pistol permit but this particular gun is NOT listed on it. She DOES NOT have a pistol permit in her name.
Is she not carrying an unregistered pistol based on the prima facia evidence? How can she sell it to the FFL?
In this case, the LGS put in a call to the county pistol permit office to check: A) was the gun listed on the now deceased's permit or B) has this gun ever been reported lost/stolen. They did NOT call 911 to report the lady for having what, as far as they knew, was an unregistered handgun.
I wish I could have stuck around to find out the outcome because I would have made her an offer for what they were willing to give her for it.
Is she not carrying an unregistered pistol based on the prima facia evidence? How can she sell it to the FFL?
In this case, the LGS put in a call to the county pistol permit office to check: A) was the gun listed on the now deceased's permit or B) has this gun ever been reported lost/stolen. They did NOT call 911 to report the lady for having what, as far as they knew, was an unregistered handgun.
I wish I could have stuck around to find out the outcome because I would have made her an offer for what they were willing to give her for it.
Primarily because executors of estates are allowed 10 or 15 or 20 days (I forget) to resolve the estate.
Also, in general if you have a firearm unloaded, wrapped in a box or plain paper bag, and are attempting to relinquish said gun, typically no charges are attached to your actions, especially if you are trying to turn the gun into the police, clergy, or a licensed FFL.
Every time I add/subtract guns my licensing agency prints a whole new set of cards. I have a lot of handguns - more than 40. So I have at LEAST 9-14 different sets of cards and despite my repeated requests my county will not sort the guns by size, or caliber, value or likelihood of me keeping the gun. If I died my wife would need to look thru some 100+ cards (I DO NOT have 600 handguns!) to make sure every gun is on a card. Fortunately my county does provide a printout of all my guns each time I add/delete a gun, that stays in the safe with the important papers.
Trauma47645
.357 mag
And this is exactly what this woman was trying to do..
Question for the LEO and FFL here.
What happened if she left the locked handgun in the car and went into the gun store and said, "I have a pistol in the car that I want to sell." Would she still be covered by FOPA since it does allow for necessary stops? (I'd argue that getting gas money for a ~1500 mile trip could be necessary.)
Then, the FFL could walk out to the car, get it out of the trunk, and legally take possession of it, right? Or, would they legally not be able to take possession of the pistol?
What happened if she left the locked handgun in the car and went into the gun store and said, "I have a pistol in the car that I want to sell." Would she still be covered by FOPA since it does allow for necessary stops? (I'd argue that getting gas money for a ~1500 mile trip could be necessary.)
Then, the FFL could walk out to the car, get it out of the trunk, and legally take possession of it, right? Or, would they legally not be able to take possession of the pistol?
garyv350
.357 mag
How about this....she walks in with an Smith and Wesson bodyguard, looks like a strung out drug addict, wants to sell it for $40.00 for gas money to get to Maine. And was from Texas.
What do you do?
What do you do?
Everything was fine up until the gun dealer called the cops. Of course he could have bought it, or just told her to continue on. He's not bound to do anything in this situation. He chose to.
4excal
.338 Win Mag
That would be generalization of the minority posters punishing the majority as a whole
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Sorry. I'm from Ny
Same with the cops, but a gun dealer can't ruin lives on a whim.
4excal
.338 Win Mag
Hell nope!
The only whim involved here was the FFL, no matter how hard you try to twist it on the cop.
The FFL took a non-issue, made it an issue, then dumped it onto someone who would be bound to take action by multiple oversight avenues on a logged and recorded call.
And now this situation has become to perfect example to expose how people really feel, considering the facts are indisputable.
The FFL took a non-issue, made it an issue, then dumped it onto someone who would be bound to take action by multiple oversight avenues on a logged and recorded call.
And now this situation has become to perfect example to expose how people really feel, considering the facts are indisputable.